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ThirstyPerson's avatar

My sympathies Oz, the Zio bots are out in force

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Oz Zeren's avatar

Thanks. Its worse that such people are actually real people instead of being bots or hasbara. They really illustrate the point of the post.

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Oz Zeren's avatar

God... You linked to an interview of a person who said in another interview that killing children is normal because she is a Jew.

https://makingsense.quora.com/Israeli-Settler-Says-That-Is-Normal

Again, don't defend the indefensible. Say 'This is sh*t. This is not my Judaism. This is not my country. I will change that'.

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nevil cohen's avatar

I don't see anywhere where she says that. All I see is your selective pasting of pictures with captions that are in all likelihood taken out of context or may be influenced by the fact that English is not her natural language.

So let me say what I see her trying to tell Piers Morgan, which he of course, in his usual bombastic manner, won't allow her the time to do.

Her point is clear. The Israelis are under attack. Not the other way round. Hamas has chosen to fight from behind the protection of civilians. That children are involved is the way Hamas and the Gazans seem content to allow. That children are taught from day 1 to hate Jews is a choice they have made. It is not the unfortunate, brain-washed children's fault that they are used as cannon fodder. On this, we all agree. Nevertheless, it is what it is, and you are expecting her to express remorse for killing those that would kill her, given half a chance.

What Western culture doesn't get is that the Jihadist mentality thinks differently. For them, it is an honor to die for the cause. They don't have empathy for their own children's deaths. Rather, it seems an excuse for celebrating another martyr. We care more about their children dying than they do. Your post and the comments section prove that.

So this woman is saying, quite clearly, that when the Palestinians care for their own children, as western culture is primed to do, then you can worry about her expressing empathy for the death of those children killed.

It's called the management of reality. As someone who writes extensively, you should be very aware of the fake news and make more of an effort to get it right.

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Oz Zeren's avatar

> I don't see anywhere where she says that. All I see is your selective pasting of pictures with captions that are in all likelihood taken out of context or may be influenced by the fact that English is not her natural language.

There you are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU

It's the recent French documentary about settlers.

> Her point is clear. The Israelis are under attack.

Its Israel who has aircraft, bombs and nuclear weapons. Its not under attack. It is the one attacking.

> That children are taught from day 1 to hate Jews is a choice they have made

Nobody teaches them to hate Israel, not Jews, but Israel itself. Dont make up religious nonsense to reinforce your own bias.

> What Western culture doesn't get is that the Jihadist mentality thinks differently. For them, it is an honor to die for the cause. They don't have empathy for their own children's deaths. Rather, it seems an excuse for celebrating another martyr. We care more about their children dying than they do. Your post and the comments section prove that.

Rant all about those after you address how the 'motherly, loving and caring' person you seem to have used as a reference says how it is okay to kill Palestinians because she is a Jew.

> So this woman is saying, quite clearly, that

...its 'okay' to kill Palestinians including children because she is a Jew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU

> It's called the management of reality.

You are the one trying to 'manage' reality by referencing a sociopath who is hardly containing herself because she is talking to a major talk show host. She didnt have that kind of self-control when talking to the French documentarian above.

> As someone who writes extensively, you should be very aware of the fake news and make more of an effort to get it right.

Let me post this again so that you know what's fake and what's not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU

Next time you 'challenge' something, use your judgment instead of your - obviously racist - biases. You went on a whole tirade to whitewash a sociopath who says it's okay to kill children.

Let me post it again here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU

There you go.

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nevil cohen's avatar

You've posted the same link 3 times. BBC documentary. No French that I can see. 3 minute clip actually. Likely a lot more than 3 mins recordings.

I have seen clippings of her before which were quite frankly, embarrasing, but this is not. I think that reports of what the Settlers are sometimes accused of are unacceptable if true. This is not one of those.

Child soldiers are used in numerous places.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/12/1158661

Child soldiers are used by Boko Haram in Nigeria. They attack Christians, often kidnapping young girls who are forced into marriage and a life of slavery.

I'm sure you must have called this out in many of your posts

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/00219096251318237?download=true

Let us not forget Iraq's 1980 invasion of Iran. Iran resorted to using child soldiers. Many of the children volunteered. Others not. As a safety measure to prevent the kids from changing their minds and running away, the children were roped together.

Probably before you started writing. Otherwise, you would no doubt have condemned this practice as foul play.

I assume that you did your time in the military. If you saw combat and were faced with a young boy about to throw some IED at you, what would you have done? If you hesitated, chances were good that you would not be writing these articles. If you did your job, you would have pulled the trigger and perhaps visited a shrink afterwards. Child soldiers are illegal but are a fact of life. As I said before, don't assume Jihadists embrace Western ethics. That is dangerous for your health.

And finally, for your information. This is the real war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35loR5uu0SA&list=PLgcAUsd3ZdboS1UfReDueBeyysjb2IZGU&index=14

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Oz Zeren's avatar

> You've posted the same link 3 times

Did I? Here is a 4th time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU

Its a French documentary made by a Frenchman. It being French, Laponish, Japanese, Russian or Vietnamese wouldnt change anything.

> I have seen clippings of her before which were quite frankly, embarrasing

If you are calling that sociopathic mindset merely 'embarassing', every outrage word you used about everyone else become meaningless. Here is what is outrageous:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Here-Is-The-Israeli-Government-Arguing-That-Its-Ok-For-The-IDF-To-Rape-Detained-Palestinians

> Child soldiers are used in numerous places.

Yes, but not Gaza. Here:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Child-Soldiers-Are-Ok-When-Anglo-Proxies-Use-Them

Dont MAKE UP things and hurl baseless smears to demonize the victims.

> They attack Christians

Here is who attacks Christians:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Israel-Tried-To-Kill-Pope-Francis-Friend-By-Bombing-His-Catholic-Church-In-Gaza

> Let us not forget Iraq's 1980 invasion of Iran

Look. You are going on a lot of irrelevant tangents and trying to smear an entire religion to rationalize a f*cking genocide. What that is accomplishing is making you appear like a raging racist instead of justifying anything you say.

> I assume that you did your time in the military. If you saw combat and were faced with a young boy about to throw some IED at you

If I were fighting the locals as an occupier in such a country, then I would deserve that IED being thrown in my face. And that's a false dilemma - there are people who have enough balls to not fall into such a situation:

https://makingsense.quora.com/There-Are-Israelis-With-Hearts-And-The-Balls-The-Size-To-Match-Their-Hearts-Few-But-There-Are

> As I said before, don't assume Jihadists embrace Western ethics

A lot of tangential bullsh*t to rationalize killing children. If that is 'Western ethics', then they should go to hell. Of course, that is not 'Western' ethics. Its Angloamerican ethics.

> And finally, for your information. This is the real war.

Ohmygod muslims! So hOrRiBLe!!! You took their lands, treating them as non-humans that can be eradicated, and they dare fight back!! Look at their scary face masks!! Look at their scary rifles!! So much more scary than Israeli rifles! Or Israeli bombs! What are we going to do!!! Its an apocalypse.

...

Your racism is showing. Its not even thinly veiled. I dont consort with or tolerate racism. If you want to keep interacting in the future, I recommend you drop it. It has no place in civilized company.

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nevil cohen's avatar

Typical of your sort. Twist your transgressions onto us so that we are the guilty. Goebels would be proud.

You say that children are innocent and don't deserve to die.

We all agree on that, except when they're forced into the conflict it becomes a them or us scenario. If we must attack rocket launchers and they are used as a wall of protection, then your fight is with Hamas, not Israel.

The Muslims that I know are great people. But the Jihadists are not from the same family.

Two people, and by no means the only ones, should know a lot more than you or I. Nonie Darwish, the daughter of a founder of Hamas, now living in the US, having converted to Christianity. She knows going back to Gaza would mean death for her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQdcrvYn3rc

Mosab Hassan Yousef, more commonly known as 'son of Hamas', His father, also a founder of Hamas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocxY6Y69aFY

Many others who would dare criticize were killed for their bravery. But even so, there are others out there who speak out. We're not talking about a democratic disagreement. It's the way Jihadism, or death.

You're the rascist. Two years ago I was very distressed that more wasn't being done to create a Palestinian state. How wrong I was.

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nevil cohen's avatar

You're a sick man. Learn the history of Israel's existence before you start with your nonsense. You are clueless. As to the Gaza situation, when the PLO was formed in 1964, there was no mention of claiming Gaza or the West Bank as a second Palestinian country(Jordan is the first). Why? Because Gaza belonged to Egypt, and the West Bank to Jordan. Only after the 1967 war, when Israel captured these territories, did the PLO amend its Charter to include these territories.

As to the current situation, you overlook the obvious. Hamas started the war again. If they truly want peace, they would give back the hostages and accept free passage into exile. No mystery.

As for the '20 000' dead Gazan children you refer to, have you ever mentioned that they are used as cover for Hamas rockets and other nefarious behaviour?

If your neighbour starts shooting at you from his window, surrounded by his wife and children, what will you do? Wait until his kids go to school before shooting back?

Israel has every right to attack any perceived threat against it, and if it so happens that women and children are placed in the way, then that's unfortunate.

Israel makes mistakes, no doubt. Some of them may be deliberate. We are not perfect. We have our bad eggs. But let me remind you that this is war. Ugly things happen.

You would have us meekly sit back and let another Holocaust take place.

Not this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35loR5uu0SA&list=PLgcAUsd3ZdboS1UfReDueBeyysjb2IZGU&index=14

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Oz Zeren's avatar

> You're a sick man

Sick are those who defend a settler colony that is burning children alive on live video.

> As to the Gaza situation, when the PLO was formed in 1964, there was no mention of claiming Gaza or the West Bank as a second Palestinian country(Jordan is the first)

The first genocide that Israel committed was in 1948.

> Hamas started the war again

Hamas started a war because it wanted Israel to release the 7000 kids it was holding in military prisons for throwing stones at tanks.

> If they truly want peace, they would give back the hostages and accept free passage into exile.

Israeli government says it will ethnically cleanse Gaza regardless of hostages being released.

https://makingsense.quora.com/Israel-will-not-stop-war-until-Palestinians-displaced-from-Gaza-and-Syria-partitioned-minister-says

The West Bank laid down its arms. They beat them up and threw them out, killed them and took over 80% of their land.

> As for the '20 000' dead Gazan children you refer to, have you ever mentioned that they are used as cover for Hamas rockets and other nefarious behaviour?

The Lancet study says that 300,000 Gazans were killed. Did every single one of them have a Hamas fighter behind him? The proposition is preposterous.

And here is who really uses human shields:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Israeli-News-War-Cabined-Will-Meet-In-the-IDF-HQ-Under-Israeli-HOSPITAL

> If your neighbour starts shooting at you from his window, surrounded by his wife and children, what will you do? Wait until his kids go to school before shooting back?

I wouldnt try to throw him out of his land by saying my god promised him his land 5000 years ago in the first place.

> Israel has every right to attack any perceived threat against it,

Israel would have that right if it withdrew to the 1967 borders, prosecuted the war criminals and paid reparations to the families of those it murdered over the decades.

> if it so happens that women and children are placed in the way

If it is so happening that you are killing 300,000 people, then it means that nothing is 'just happening' but you are committing a genocide.

> Israel makes mistakes

It is openly saying that it is going to cleanse the Gazans ethnically. There is no mistake. Its policy.

> You would have us meekly sit back and let another Holocaust take place.

According to the UN, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, you are the ones doing the genocide.

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nevil cohen's avatar

Israel committed Genocide in 1948? You outdo yourself.

Never heard that before. Attacked by 5 countries on the first day of its independence. Barely managing to scrape enough arms together to somehow defend itself. How you can come to such a conclusion only you know. And don’t tell me they were killing Palestinians. For starters, until independence, the Jews were Palestinians and carried passports depicting them as such. Secondly, the majority of Arabs who left were encouraged by the invading forces to do so with the promise that they could come back when the Jews were wiped out.

Hamas started a war because it wanted Israel to release the 7000 kids it was holding in military prisons for throwing stones at tanks

Hamas doesn’t give a continental about any Palestinians, never mind however many kids. They steal the aid sent. No civilians are protected within the myriad of tunnels they have constructed. Only Hamas people hide underground. They use civilians as cannon fodder. The more that die, the more useful idiots like you they sign up to their cause.

The more sophisticated AI becomes, the more you will struggle. You’re already drowning. "‘Jews control the World. Jews control the media. Jews control Hollywood’. Only one problem with all these theories. The Jews are the ones always getting picked upon. Pogroms, Holocausts, being kicked from pillar to post. Strange way for the World’s controlling force to end up. Even you should be able to work out that something is not adding up.

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Oz Zeren's avatar

> Israel committed Genocide in 1948? You outdo yourself.

Deir Yassin and others. As just recently admitted by Israeli veterans of that war:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Israeli-Veterans-Say-There-Is-A-Mass-Palestinian-Grave-At-An-Israeli-Beach

> Never heard that before.

It's amazing how that can happen...

> And don’t tell me they were killing Palestinians.

That's precisely what happened, as seen above.

> Hamas doesn’t give a continental about any Palestinians, never mind however many kids.

Hamas managed to get Israel to release a few thousand prisoners already. So basically, you are just wrong.

> They steal the aid sent.

So claims the government that murdered UN officials, medics, buried them alive with their ambulances and lied about it.

The same government also recently admitted to having used the Hannibal directive on its own citizens to prevent them from getting captured:

https://makingsense.quora.com/Former-Israeli-defense-minister-Yoav-Gallant-has-acknowledged-ordering-the-army-to-use-the-Hannibal-Directive-to-kill-Is

Its the same government who has been starving Gazans way before that.

https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810

> The more that die, the more useful idiots like you they sign up to their cause.

Keep to civilized discussion if you want to debate in public.

> The more sophisticated AI becomes, the more you will struggle.

At this point, your arguments are really unintelligible.

> Even you should be able to work out that something is not adding up.

Look... Even if all of what the Israeli government(s) claim through your mouth has been true, you still cannot ethnically cleanse anyone. Leaving aside burn their children alive on live video. It doesn't matter what justification you use for that. You cant take anyone's land after 'winning a war' either. We made it illegal decades ago to prevent such conquests. There is absolutely no excuse or reason you can show for doing that, as it is illegal.

It's f'king 25 years into the 21st century and we are having to tell people that they can't burn children alive for ANY REASON. You are exemplifying the delirium I have been talking about in this article. You are showing us 'reasons' for which we should accept Israel burning children alive.

This discussion is unproductive. You are literally talking like an Israeli government press release, except even the Israeli government walked back a lot of things it claimed in the past two years. If I want to read an Israeli government press release, I can just go and read its official websites. I dont need someone on the internet to repeat to me in an online discussion what it - temporarily - says before walking it back a few months later.

Therefore, if you are going to stop talking like an Israeli government press release and use your actual, reality-bound arguments, this discussion can continue. Otherwise, it's past its productivity.

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